Hi All,

The company I work for is in the process of choosing motion control platform for the new machine line. The engineering department has been introduced to various control system manufacturers, Bosch and Baumuller being probably most interesting so far.

I would appreciate if someone could share their experiences and thoughts regarding these two companies and their products.

Thank you!

 

We have been implementing servo motion products exclusively since 1981 & have implimented servos & controllers from both of the above companies in the past. This experiance has led us to develop our own line of servo-motion controllers which are available now. If you have interest in our thoughts or our products, I can be reached at the above e-mail or at 206-363-0217

Regards,
Fred Graham

 

Hi Zeljko

I designed a control system for a Georg cut to length line with leveler, decoiler, edge trimmer, oiler and vacumn conveyor palletizing units using a Citect scada and Siemens PLC with a position controller module and a few other whistles and bells, the reason why it was much more attractive to do it this way was that the end result was an expandable system with a great deal of competent support people locally available. The options which you are considering were also on the table for my project (at least some of them were) the reason why we won the order was that the opposition products were very restrictive for future expansion, the suppliers basically said when expansion came along they would be happy to replace the control system, when we did expand my machine a few years later to a swing shear and a few other improvements, it was hardly necessary to change any hardware on the system, only where new stuff was added.

Today I would probably use an S7 PLC and Siemens masterdrives with position control CPU's if I was to redesign the project.

I must also add that it wasn't an easy job but as I was to a large degree, solely responsible to design commission and optimize the system on my own, and that I had never seen a cut to length line before this one, and that the whole design started in November and was running by new year, well I suppose it should have been difficult.

Love to build another one of these so if you are in South Africa, give us a call!!!

Regards Donald Pittendrigh

 

We are solutions providers for a variety of high performance motion solutions and have considerable experience with Indramat products. We have no other product offering with a broad an offering and high-end capability. While they are not perfect, it is well supported and well accepted. Baumuller in the US is a very small player and has fewer resources than our modest company. Depending on your industry, it is likely that you will see Indramat specified, but we have never seen anyone ask for Baumueller.

Craig Souser

 

Maybe my post will be a bit more useful. I use to be in distribution and worked with many motion control suppliers and all the competitors.

I have not used Indramat or Baumuller, but have gone up against them in competative situations. In the midwest, Baumuller is not very common to see out there. I have not heard anything bad about them, but take my words lightly because I have only seen 2 or 3 customers using it. I'm not sure if it is because of their lack of presence here or support.

Indramat I see more. Most say that their controllers are too expensive, but I have seen them cut costs were I couldn't even come close to competing. I have heard that for smaller sized OEM's or End-Users do not get the support they need.

Some other suggestions for vendors to look at:
1. Emerson Control Techniques
2. Danaher - Kollmorgen & Pac-Sci
3. Sanyo Denkie / Automation Intelligence
4. Computmotor
5. Yaskawa
6. Ge Fanuc
7. Allen Bradley
8. Giddings & Lewis
And Aerotech, that's me,

What type of applications do you have? Are you looking for Multi-Axis controls or just single-axis control? What size motors?

Cameron Anderson
Aerotech, Inc - www.aerotech.com
St. Paul, MN

"Dedicated to the Science of Motion"

 

Depending on what you are doing with these servos they are very dependable and accurate in positioning. I have 22 servodrives that are DKC02.1 Digital ecodrive servos that are sercos ready. These were on a specialty packaging machine that ran infrequent. Also have 21 motors to go with these. if interested LMK. Pat

 

Hi

We have a lot of exp. with Lenze, Indramat, Siemens and Baumueler. I sugest to you use Siemens PLC with Profibus and Indramat servo if you live in USA or Siemens and Lenze in Europe. I think it is very good solution. Where are you from (Croatia...)? and for which application do you need that?

With best regard!

Branko Treska, Trecon d.o.o., Slovenia
[email protected]

 

As a manufacturer of robots, dowmstream and electric machines We have alot of experience with siemens, indramat, bosch, lenze and baumuller.

Baumuller is not the way to go in the USA, their expertise is not up to par, their service and parts needs serious work. Their applications are good but have not stood up in the field. The motors have stood up without failure, however we have had countless drive failures.

Consider your choices carefully, I personally would not suggest Baumuller.

 

Bosch Indramat provides excellent performance and reliability.

Yaskawa also provides excellent performance and reliability. Also has a broader line of control platforms.

Both of these companies will be around for a very long time and have stabile products and excellent support for older products. This is important over the life cycle of the machine.

Siemens performance and reliability is OK, but the product is exceptionally difficult to use. Complicated and unneccessarily so.

Baumueller is much more of an unknown, having less of a market share.

The Danaher product line, despite its breadth and many brands is of secondary performance and reliability.

Rockwell, despite their great investment and effort has still not figured motion control out.

 

While Siemens S5 motion controllers were decidedly complex, they (mostly) provided limitless flexiblity.

S7 motion control systems are considerably simpler.

Both provide a path for upgrade and extension as they are PLC's and not containerised proprietary solutions.

Reards
Donald Pittendrigh

 

And exactly HOW are the S5 and S7 not containerised
proprietary solutions???? Which motion hardware other
than Siemens can you connect to them? Whose software
other than Siemens can you connect to them? Maybe I'm
no longer up to date on PLCs as I have not had to do
much PLC development for several years, but last I
heard Siemens was just as closed as AB, or GE.
Everyone plays some lip service to open systems, then
when you read the fine print you find that you can do
only extremely minimal integration with outside
products more complex than simple sensors.

Their motion control for high speed coordinated motion
is also not terribly capable, imho. Though it is
better than Rockwell.

Indramat has a good system for coordinated motion of
moderate levels of complexity and/or speed, though it
too is a closed system. For high end systems you will
want something from us, Berkely Process Controls, GE
Fanuc, or the like.

Davis Gentry
Delta Tau Data Systems
www.deltatau.com

 

Yes, that would be most interesting to hear, as most PLCs
are the epitome of containerized proprietary systems.

Regards

cww

 

Why do all these threads careen away from the original question, in this instance well summarized by the subject line?

Since the swerve has already happened, I'll note in support of Davis Gentry that my clients that use Delta Tau stuff seem pretty happy, but I have always had a lot of happy users for my Rockwell products as well. Motion
control is a very fragmented market, and there are a lot of niches. I don't recommend my own products where they don't fit.

Meanwhile, I haven't a clue about Indramat vs. Baumüller, and thus this post is of no use to the original correspondent. It's only necessary to respond to the gratuitous slams at Rockwell that crept in along the way.
Rockwell has indeed "figured motion control out."

Hope this helps!

Larry Lawver
Rexel / Central Florida

 

The reason why the posts veer away is because they are provocative and relate to topics that the majority are keen to discuss, and that is precisely where their value lies. If the original respondant gets a straight answer to his question, then there probably wouldn't have been a question in the first place!!!

Donald P

 

Donald----

When this happens during a contract, we call it mission creep.

I'll continue to value on-point posts and be annoyed by off-point ones. Like this one.

Hope this helps!

Larry Lawver
Rexel / Central Florida

 

Hi all,

I would probably try Baumuller rather than Bosch. Although Baumuller is a very small payer in this market, but their product will be competing with bosch/Indramat/Rexroth. Their applications are good and easy. Indramat, their controllers are too expensive and we didn't get the support they need. we have sevious baumuller motor which work very good and high performance. *Baumuller staff also providing a very good service to us(IMPORTANT). Please consider and i hope Baumuller would be your choice.

Best Regards,
W.C Wong (Malysia)
Email: [email protected]